Greets alls,
Looks like the ork codex pre-orders should be going up this weekend. Despite rumors to the contrary. I was unable to find the ork codex on the GW website. So that's usually a pretty good indicator shit's about to go down. Someone let me know if I'm just stupid and missed it.
- Now thoughts on the ork walkers
The new Ork units in the white dwarf are pretty sexy, BUT BUT, they are missing two vital rules, which I hope is in the codex, or these will be -never going to fucking take - wonders. Seriously. Not to mention ,if the rumored points values are true (Gorkanaut 245 points, Morkanaut 230). Then they're stupidly over-priced regardless, especially if they take up a much coveted heavy support slot.
Assault vehicle and/or Fleet.
They definitely need to be an assault vehicle, if nothing else.
Why?
It's guns are so - so (good for orks, bad.. because orks are shooting them). It's got good CC abilities.
So hiding a core of scoring units in it is plausible while it shoots, but not a good idea. The game plan is going to be run this thing full tilt across the board at the enemy.
So what's the problem?
Things a walker, it's slow as shit.
Turn 1
Turn one move 6' run ..average of 3. Now it's 6 inches behind your leading vehicles (because you want to maintain that KFF bubble). If you don't care about your kff bubble, its 6-12 inches behind (vehicles move 12, flat out 6)
Turn 2
Turn 2, all your vehicles move forward 6; guys disembark 6, and your assault is on. (hopefully, unless your opponent is playing hammer and anvil and moved the hell back, in which case its stretching to reach them.
But for the sake of things, lets pretend its not hammer and anvil, or didn't back up far enough
So your walkers moved forward 6, and is now (6 + distance from b-wagons previous turn) away from your battle line.
You now have a choice, disembark the... 6 man squad (most like 3 meganobz or some flamer bro's), and run them forward with the walker to go for turn 3 assault, exposing them to all sorts of nasty firepower. (Now 9 to 24 inches away from your battle line, depending on your dice rolls and vehicle speeds)
or simply run forward and wait for turn 3 to unleash its cargo, for a turn 4 charge.
Either of which, is not a super amazing choice. Lets hope they have one or those two rules.
Assault already got hit hard with nerfbat, and 7th edition hasn't changed that one bit. If your assaults need to happen as rapidly as possible, in a timely reliable way in order to be useful and make up for this. Given the mobility of a lot of armies (and more so elder), they need to be effective at getting there as well, not to mention with enough bodies to absorb inevitable overwatch.
I can see a couple useful roles for the walkers, but mainly Counter assault/second wave assault, AV13 will make them durable and reliable in CC. They have plenty of hitting capacity, and pretty decent anti-infantry firepower. Also Firepower soaks (same reason).
The squad you hold inside of it, needs to have a similar role, or it will be essentially useless. And you can't have counter assault, if the squad can't assault out of it. Especially if the thing explodes, which it's likely to do, as its a big scary walker and an obvious target for anti-tank.
It's fairly clear since the transport capacity is only 6 models, that the intention is for some sort of small elite squad to be moved about inside this vehicle. GW needs to give them the means to be practical using it. Otherwise the transport capacity might as well not exist.
Some notes:
ReplyDeleteIt's a bit early to complain about slots. We don't know if they moved some things around (maybe flash gitz are elite now, killa kans fast (like in IA:8, etc). So the heavy slot might not be as populated as it once was.
I agree on the points cost being pretty high, but we haven't seen how the rest of the codex looks point wise yet either. Many things may have gone up in points. On the more balanced codexes (SM, Nids, AM), there is a buff/nerf adjustment to units across the codex. I assume the same is going to be happening to orks.
On the transport capability.
I don't think the walker is meant to be an assault vehicle, more as an elite transport. Specifically, there is enough room to fit a group of burna's and mek's in there...allowing them to repair the transport if it's damaged, and provide a nasty response to any unit that gets close enough to threaten the walker (wyches for example).
Regardless of the points values being tweaked, if that is the point cost, it's a substantial one for very little gain.
DeleteThe walkers ability to threaten people largely depends on two things, Survival vs. shooting / assault, and threat saturation. AV13, is ok, but it's fairly easy to nock down. Even with 5 hullpoints. I expect to see far more melta / AP2 shooting this edition to compensation for AP3 and above not being able to one shot tanks.
If i saw that thing across the board from me, and knew not only was it expensive, but it was av13, AND had a dangerous squad inside, it's now my first priority target UNLESS there is sufficient other fast moving threats to make me more scared. With a lot of points concentrated in one model, it's an easy win to simply nock it over, stranding the elite squad inside, making then vunerable, and removing a substantial portion of my oppionents force in one go. And again, as i point out, the thing is slow. Your not going to be using it for its guns for at least two turns, possible three, to deliver the package inside of it effectively. It needs to be reliable in it's speed, or else you might as well take a b-wagon or trukk full of burnas for a much better and cheaper result.
So yes, it depends on the codex.
It's av13 + five hull points + you can fit a squad able to repair it multiple times a turn inside it + it will not die + a 5++ invul (from a KFF).
DeleteBut yes, I agree on all your points. It's not invulnerable, it's going to be more a "fun" item to take then a competitive one...but then orks by their very nature are not competitive. And from the look of it (and based on rumors), this codex is going to be as random, if not more random then the last one. It's really a just for kicks army in my opinion.
I'm sure with time and effort you could probably make even the new codex competitive, but it would probably result in just spamming a bunch of stuff again.
I agree that in the current meta and codex, orks are not competitive. However I feel obliged to point out that they were very competitive in 5th, and the first half of 6th (until tau/eldar). So lets not give up hope on them yet! **Crosses fingers**
Delete5HP's is a lot, i agree. But a few lascannons and/or meltaguns will probably do the trick, just as they would for a LR or anything else.
Not to mention they are ugly as sin.
ReplyDeleteAV13+ is going to be tough in 7th. It also makes you immune to krak grenades in combat. If there are a couple battlewagons rolling around with AV14, that is a lot of high armor targets. I always thought it was weird that things in 40k either move 12" ignoring difficult terrain, or you move 6" at best and usually 2d6" take the highest (because 1/3 of the table is difficult). They are so much faster that it just dwarfs regular infantry when it comes to crossing the table. Maybe the new gorkanaught will be a super heavy walker (like the imperial knights)?
ReplyDelete