I wish this wasn't true. But it is.

Going to link so as to not steal credit. But this sum's up my feelings on my CSM book that I keep struggling to make work.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/chaos-space-marines-are-for-chumps.html


Seriously, it is that bad, if not worse. Even chaos terminators suck and land raiders suck.

Notice my lists area always - cultists, spawn, Maulerfiends, a helldrake, and some super beefy cheesed out lords that basically do all the heavy lifting in the army by themselves.

Eldar high strength, long range shooting make that list no longer viable under any circumstances. So now CSM went from, "it might work if i move my models carefully and think moves through" to, "i'm tabled top of turn 2, lets go get a beer".

You litterally can't do anything else. Oblits get shreded by wave serpents, land raiders die to wraith knights, or get ignored, and when the tasty insides pop out, those get shredded.

Spawn suck against models they can never reach, and don't have any saves against, and get wounded on 2's or 3's.

helldrake is super easy to shoot down with twin liked S6 and S7 guns that on average put out a combined snap firing average of 6 to 10 shots a turn.

So

Thanks GW, for making CSM the shittiest book in 6th edition. Even the helldrake isn't enough to keep it afloat anymore.

Maybe its time to "FAQ" some point costs around to make them viable (but not OP) like you all did for dark angels. Reducing the point costs from the plain marines to around 9 or 10 a model would be a good start. Reducing the cost of the upgrades, and the other suggestions made in the above linked post. Maybe make it so Chaos LR's are a few points less, since its their only assault delivery platform which is viable (one might argue at this point its their only viable vehicle period). Maybe lower the costs of all the cult marines by 1 or 2 pts a model, especially khorne bserkers which hugely suck now.

Oblits, spawns, maulerfiends, forgefiends these kinds of models are actually fairly priced in the codex. It's all about the shitty marines not working.

Oh and Mutilators suck. Based on the new rumors, it seems mutilators are the shitty version of the new beasts you guys are releasing for vanilla marines. Superrrr


I've been struggling to make a list for NOVA for the past two months. Tau made things interesting, it was spicy, but not unplayable. Their overwatch is killer and made the only real viable list I could pull out of the CSM book, a difficult but not insurmountable match up. Daemon allies helped mitigate it, to make Tau, my hard counter. Which is fine, every list should have hard counters.

But, as is aptly pointed out, CSM troops suck, horrifically. If you invest any respectable amount of points into troops, you end up not being able to have any tools for any real damage output. My teams lists for adepticon took plague marines, which is about the best MEQ troop you can pull out of that book, and even they fall down on the job for their point cost. 150 pts for 5 dudes with 2 plasma guns, an extra 35 pts if you want them to be mobile, an extra 10 points if you want them to add some synergy to your army with dozers and dirgecasters. Suddenly its 195pts for 5 guys, in their own personal little deathbox. So they get blown up turn 1 most likely, and then.... hang around midfield adding a mostly ineffectual weight of firepower to the game. Essentially just waiting their turn to die, or in a lot cases, frankly just ignored.

I do love plague marines, i think they are an excellent MEQ as far as things go, its hard to argue with T5, FnP, Poisoned Meele, and 2 specialist weapons. But its still difficult to make a list involving them which can sustain itself.

So now I've been pulling my hair out. NOVA is a few short weeks away. Every suggestion I've gotten for help on my list I've hated. 3 land raiders? fuck no. Triple helldrake? No!
Those are extreme builds, involve spending money and lots of time to paint, and most likely are not even really going to work anyways. I mean seriously, 3 Land raiders are going to do about nothing. Poor quality shooting, if the model moves at all it has to start snap firing, can't fire at multiple targets... woo.

Triple helldrake has a smaller amount of promise, but that's assuming I get an AMAZING alpha strike off, because otherwise people are going to dance around to my rear armor, and unload.

So that's where i am, its a few weeks from NOVA, and I've got almost nothing I can do with my book. And in case its not obvious, I'm pretty pissed about it.